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Indlæg: 15 maj 2012 10:21 
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Hey psy :)

Efter jeg havde læst denne tråd viewtopic.php?f=4&t=39891
Kom jeg sådan til at tænke på om der var andre mærker som der absolut ingen der har haft gode erfaringer med.
Jeg ved godt det er svært for ikke at sige næsten umuligt, at sige om det er de samme mærker.
Men hvis man vil skrive de mærker som man kun har haft dårlig erfaringer eller hørt dårligt om vil det kunne hjælpe mig og andre er jeg sikker på, er nemlig godt og grundig træt af at køre 30km for at få fat i sit mærke og så når man kommer hjem virker det ikke (Selvfølgelig fik jeg pengene tilbage, men jeg vil bare gerne vide hvilke jeg aldrig skal hive med hjem), og hvis der nu var nogle der havde haft gode erfaringer med nogle af dem som nok vil blive postet, ville de være fedt hvis i lige hvor meget i ville mene der kunne være i dem i fik.
Håber på at høre fra jer, selvom det kan være svært og sige hvilke der er dårlige og ikke.

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Indlæg: 15 maj 2012 11:21 
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Tilmeldt: 10 aug 2004 11:26
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De ca. 10 gange jeg har prøvet LSD har mærkerne altid været fine. Måske et enkelt batch har været af ret lav styrke, men ellers har det altid virket upåklageligt.

Som tommelfingerregel tror jeg ikke du skal bekymre dig om at bestemte mærker ikke virker. :)


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Indlæg: 15 maj 2012 12:01 
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Tilmeldt: 07 jul 2011 21:14
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looney tunes haha skal ikke kunne sige om vi bare var uheldige i den tråd som du henviser til. MEN nederen var det satme ! :lol:


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Indlæg: 15 maj 2012 12:09 
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Tilmeldt: 11 mar 2010 13:47
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2 af mine godevenner havde begge ret vilde badtrips efter shiva mærker. min veninde spiste en måned senere et halvt, og sagde det var rigeligt. og hun har ellers før spist 2 - 3 mærker

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Indlæg: 15 maj 2012 12:37 
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Tilmeldt: 07 jul 2011 21:14
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Der er massere shiva mærker i nordjylland og her skulle der ikke være nogle problemer. men det er jo langt fra sikkert at det er de samme


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Indlæg: 15 maj 2012 12:52 
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2 af mine godevenner havde begge ret vilde badtrips efter shiva mærker. min veninde spiste en måned senere et halvt, og sagde det var rigeligt. og hun har ellers før spist 2 - 3 mærker


Jeg har selv erfaring med potente shiva mærker, hvor et halvt mærke var en fin dosis. Men er det ikke bare bonus at de er super stærke? ;)

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Jeg ved præcis hvor vi skal hen.. øhh 150 grader mod nordvest, eller nærmere omvendt! Jeg putter det her varmometer i munden og ser at pulsen er 2 millioner grader .. og og jeg er ikk rigtig klog!

men jeg kan jo eller ikke side og suge rohypnoler i bongmix hverdag for så stiger tolerance jo


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Indlæg: 15 maj 2012 13:22 
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2 af mine godevenner havde begge ret vilde badtrips efter shiva mærker. min veninde spiste en måned senere et halvt, og sagde det var rigeligt. og hun har ellers før spist 2 - 3 mærker


Jeg har selv erfaring med potente shiva mærker, hvor et halvt mærke var en fin dosis. Men er det ikke bare bonus at de er super stærke? ;)


Jo det er da på ingen måde dårligt? :D


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Indlæg: 15 maj 2012 17:58 
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Tilmeldt: 11 mar 2010 13:47
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2 af mine godevenner havde begge ret vilde badtrips efter shiva mærker. min veninde spiste en måned senere et halvt, og sagde det var rigeligt. og hun har ellers før spist 2 - 3 mærker


Jeg har selv erfaring med potente shiva mærker, hvor et halvt mærke var en fin dosis. Men er det ikke bare bonus at de er super stærke? ;)


Jo det er da på ingen måde dårligt? :D

nej langt fra. men hvis man ikke lige er klar på det er det altså ikke så fedt. min ene ven havde kun prøvet at tage lsd en gang før, så han endte med at badtrippe i 8 timer, hvilket ikke ligefrem er så fedt

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Indlæg: 15 maj 2012 19:25 
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2 af mine godevenner havde begge ret vilde badtrips efter shiva mærker. min veninde spiste en måned senere et halvt, og sagde det var rigeligt. og hun har ellers før spist 2 - 3 mærker


Jeg har selv erfaring med potente shiva mærker, hvor et halvt mærke var en fin dosis. Men er det ikke bare bonus at de er super stærke? ;)


Jo det er da på ingen måde dårligt? :D

nej langt fra. men hvis man ikke lige er klar på det er det altså ikke så fedt. min ene ven havde kun prøvet at tage lsd en gang før, så han endte med at badtrippe i 8 timer, hvilket ikke ligefrem er så fedt


Og det er derfor man altid har en eller flere benzodiazepiner i baglommen, for det er umuligt at sige hvad dosen ville være på et ukendt mærke man fik proppet i munden til fest. Man kan ikke vide det, for nogle er ét Shiva mærke nok, andre vil gerne have fem, nogle gange er fem Shiva mærker mindre stærke end ét Shiva mærke osv.
Det ren gætteri, så jeg kan i hvert fald kun anbefale at huske benzoer :)

OP: jeg har prøvet nogle Hofmann 1943 mærker, som er gule, grønne og blå der ikke var så stærke.. Men hvis du får fat i de samme, kan det være, at de er sindssygt potente, så it's a jungle.

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Hvis du ikke er i stemning til at tage stoffer, så kommer du formentlig heller ikke i stemning af at tage dem.
<@jimfear> jeg kom engang mens jeg dødløftede


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Indlæg: 15 maj 2012 19:40 
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OP: jeg har prøvet nogle Hofmann 1943 mærker, som er gule, grønne og blå der ikke var så stærke.. Men hvis du får fat i de samme, kan det være, at de er sindssygt potente, så it's a jungle.



Den er jeg faldt i før. Havde fået dem billigt, så regnede med styrken var lav - så vi tog 1½ hver.

Jævnt fucking kraftigt trip.


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Indlæg: 16 maj 2012 01:34 
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Har også prøvet nogle sindssygt potente shiva mærker^^, men som sagt er det ikke til at vide noget om potensen ud fra udseendet.


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Indlæg: 16 maj 2012 11:27 
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Jeg tror ikke man kan vide det. Der findes mange forskellige batches LSD til de samme mærker, og måske også samme batch til forskellige typer mærker. Mærkerne er jo bare et papir med design på, så det er ikke en kvalitetssikring. Jeg har selv prøvet en del såkaldte shiva mærker, er var ens i design, men ganske forskellig i kvalitet, ikke bare i styrke, men også i følelse af renhed. Så jeg tror det er ret umuligt at lave en sådan facitliste over det.

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Indlæg: 16 maj 2012 11:59 
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Jeg tror ikke man kan vide det. Der findes mange forskellige batches LSD til de samme mærker, og måske også samme batch til forskellige typer mærker. Mærkerne er jo bare et papir med design på, så det er ikke en kvalitetssikring. Jeg har selv prøvet en del såkaldte shiva mærker, er var ens i design, men ganske forskellig i kvalitet, ikke bare i styrke, men også i følelse af renhed. Så jeg tror det er ret umuligt at lave en sådan facitliste over det.


Kan du uddybe "følelsen af renhed"? Og hvad variationen af den "følelse" evt. kan skyldes? (urenheder?).


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Indlæg: 16 maj 2012 12:06 
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Jeg er ikke kemiker, så ved ikke hvad det kan skyldes. Men jeg har oplevet mærker hvor min krop fik sådan nogle underlige krampeagtige trækninger. Ikke sådan helt vildt, bare noget der gjorde trippet lidt mindre visuelt og mere kropsligt.

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Indlæg: 16 maj 2012 12:24 
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Den såkaldte følelse af renhed har jeg også bemærket, på forskellige mærker med samme print. Jeg tror det skyldes at det er forskellige stoffer. LSD-25, analoger deraf, og et hav af amfetaminer. Jeg har haft kraftige trips med varighed på ~20timer, på et hofmann mærke(de helt standard som plejer at være småkedelige). Det føltes meget urent(som odden skriver kraftigere bodyload/meget mere stimulerende end det jeg normalt oplever på LSD) IFHT andre mærker med samme print jeg har prøvet,og mistænker det for at være noget DOx af en art.

Kort sagt: Det er umuligt at sige hvilke der er gode og hvilke der ikke er.


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Indlæg: 16 maj 2012 12:31 
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Tilmeldt: 29 nov 2010 17:43
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Fjas skrev:
Kort sagt: Det er umuligt at sige hvilke der er gode og hvilke der ikke er.
Ja, det er umuligt at sige noget om styrke, så derfor luk øjnene og åben munden:



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Indlæg: 16 maj 2012 12:35 
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Tilmeldt: 25 feb 2004 09:57
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Derudover kan styrken variere afhængigt af alderen / hvor godt/dårligt de er blevet opbevaret, selvom de er fra samme batch og sidst men ikke mindst spiller set & setting en vigtig, men ofte undervurderet rolle på trippets udfald, selv på mærker af samme styrke.

Der har indenfor det sidste års tid væren en del bunk mærker fra Holland, hvor syren enten var ujævnt fordelt på arkene, og i andre tilfælde jævnt fordelt, men generelt svage, grænsende til inaktive.
De tider er dog så vidt jeg har ladet mig fortælle ved at være forbi, og tror du vil blive udmærket tilfreds med de mærker som cirkulerer på det europæiske marked i øjeblikket.

Diskussion af specifikke mærker/blotter art giver som nævnt ovenfor ikke meget mening, da mange af motiverne er let tilgængelige og på lige fod med ecstasy--tabletter, er der en vis risiko for, at logoer/mærker med et godt ry, bliver plagieret og tvivlsomt med en kvalitetsforbedring til følge. Det er dog ikke mit indtryk, at det praktiseres i nær samme grad m.h.t frimærker, som det er tilfældet med ecstasy-tabletter. Det er dog et postulat som må stå for egen regning, og et godt eksempel, på det i hvert fald ikke altid er tilfældet, er de talrige Hofmann- mærker med det velkendte logo med cyklen, som findes i adskillige kvaliteter af varierende potens.

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Indlæg: 16 maj 2012 13:19 
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Fjas skrev:
Kort sagt: Det er umuligt at sige hvilke der er gode og hvilke der ikke er.
Ja, det er umuligt at sige noget om styrke, så derfor luk øjnene og åben munden:



Skræmmende "tics" han snakker om at han efterfølgende har fået.. :shock:


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Indlæg: 16 maj 2012 18:36 
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Tilmeldt: 25 feb 2004 09:57
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Jeg er ikke kemiker, så ved ikke hvad det kan skyldes. Men jeg har oplevet mærker hvor min krop fik sådan nogle underlige krampeagtige trækninger. Ikke sådan helt vildt, bare noget der gjorde trippet lidt mindre visuelt og mere kropsligt.

Din beskrivelse fik mig til at tænke på Grof, og hans eksemplificeringer af de voldsomt, divergerende typer af plausible oplevelser, som tilsyneladende, alle er tilgængelige indenfor de vide rammer af et LSD-trip, om end nogen er mere almene og hyppige end andre. I nedenstående uddrag nævnes de to kendetegn du omtaler, nemlig fraværet af eller nok nærmere et begrænset visuelt aspekt, samt "underlige" somatiske træk.

Min tanke er derfor, at du måske oplevede et andet og uvant aspekt af LSDs "potentiale"/egenskaber snarere end et beskidt RC, eller, endnu værre, LSD, som ikke var blevet tilstrækkeligt velsignet af Familien/Owsley/whoever :).

Herunder et længere uddrag af 1. kapitel af 'Realms of the Human Unconsicous' (En dansk oversættelse findes under titlen 'Den Indre Rejse 1' oversat af Klaus Gormsen og Jørgen Lumbye.)
Af pladsmæssige hensyn har jeg tilladt mig at bortredigere intro og epilogen, men den fulde tekst er tilgængelig her :
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/grof4.htm og er ligesom bogen/bøgerne bestemt læseværdige.

Til den dovne læser (ikke myntet på dig, Odden) har jeg fremhævet visse sætninger omhandlende ovenstående med stor skrift, da [bold] ikke var samarbejdsvillig. Dette skal dog ikke fortolkes som, at den resterende text ikke bør læses :)
Citat:
The pivotal question that has to be dealt with in this context is whether there exist invariant, constant, and standard effects of LSD that are purely pharmacological in nature, are unrelated to the personality structure of the subject, and occur without exception in every subject who takes a sufficient dose of this drug.
The phenomena that can occur in the course of LSD sessions cover an enormous range; there exist hardly any perceptual, emotional, or psychosomatic manifestations that have not been observed and described as part of the LSD experience. The extreme multiformity and interindividual variability of the LSD state is complemented by its equally striking intraindividual variability. If the same person takes LSD repeatedly, each of his consecutive sessions is usually very different from the others in its content, general character, and course. This variability certainly is in itself a serious objection to the idea that the LSD reaction has simple chemical and physiological determinants. The proportion to which various extrapharmacological factors participate in the LSD experience is both interesting and theoretically important.
The search for the typical, mandatory pharmacological effects of LSD was an important aspect of my analytical work on the LSD data. The result of this quest was rather surprising; after analyzing over thirty-eight hundred records from LSD sessions, I have not found a single symptom that would be an absolutely constant component in all of them and could thus be considered truly invariant. Changes of optical perception are usually presented as a typical manifestation of the LSD state and thus were a serious candidate for pharmacological invariants. Although they occurred rather frequently in our records, there were a number of high-dose sessions where alterations in the optical realm were not present at all even though, in some of these sessions, the dosage amounted to 500 micrograms. Several of the LSD reactions without any visual phenomena had the form of intense sexual experiences; others were characterized by massive somatization manifested in various parts of the body, by feelings of general malaise and physical illness, or by experiences of excruciating pain. Special examples of sessions without optical perceptual changes were observed in advanced stages of psycholytic treatment and in some psychedelic sessions. These involved either a brutal and primitive biological experiential complex described by various subjects as reliving of their own birth or transcendental experiences with a paradoxical quality of being "contentless yet all-containing."
Physical manifestations of the LSD state deserve special notice in this context, since, in the early reports, they were considered simple pharmacological effects and a result of direct chemical activation of the vegetative centers in the brain. Careful observations of a large number of sessions and analysis of the records did not support this explanation. The spectrum of the so-called "vegetative symptoms" is very broad and exceeds that of any known drug with the exception of some other psychedelics. Strangely enough, these symptoms include both sympathetic and parasympathetic phenomena, and they appear in clusters involving various combinations thereof. The physical concomitants of the LSD reaction vary considerably from session to session. They are practically independent of the dosage used, and there is no demonstrable dose-effect relationship. In many high-dose LSD sessions, physical manifestations were entirely absent, or they occurred intermittently and in close association with difficult and strongly defended unconscious material. Another aspect of these symptoms that could be mentioned here is their unusual sensitivity to various psychological factors; they can often be modified or even terminated by various external influences and specific psychotherapeutic interventions. One of the physical manifestations of the LSD reaction deserves special emphasis—namely, dilation of the pupils (mydriasis). It is so common that its presence has been used by many experimenters and therapists as a reliable indicator that the person is still under the influence of the drug. For a long time, mydriasis was also a serious candidate for an invariant manifestation of the LSD effect in my investigations. Later, I witnessed several LSD sessions, some of them very dramatic, in which the pupils of the subject appeared constricted, or in which they oscillated rapidly between extreme dilation and constriction. A situation similar to that of the vegetative symptoms existed in the area of grossphysical manifestations, such as muscular tonus, tremors, twitches, seizure-like activities, and various twisting movements. None of these symptoms was standard and predictable enough to be considered a specific pharmacological effect of LSD. This does not mean that LSD per se does not have any specific physiological effects; these can be clearly demonstrated in animal experiments, which use incomparably higher dosages. My experience, however, indicates that, within the range of doses commonly used in human experiments or in psychotherapeutic practice, physical manifestations are not the result of a direct pharmacological stimulation of the central nervous system. They seem to reflect chemical activation of psychodynamic matrices in the unconscious and have a structure similar to those of hysterical conversions, organ-neurotic phenomena, or symptoms of psychosomatic disorders.
As unpredictable as the content of the LSD reaction is its intensity; the individual responses to the same dosage level vary considerably. My experience indicates that the degree of sensitivity or resistance to LSD depends on complicated psychological factors rather than on variables of a constitutional, biological, or metabolic nature. Subjects who in everyday life have the need to maintain full self-control and have difficulties in relaxing and "letting go" can sometimes resist relatively high dosages of LSD (300 to 500 micrograms) and show no detectable changes. Occasionally, a person can resist a considerable dose of LSD if he has set this as a personal task for himself for any reason. He may decide to do this to defy the therapist and compete with him, to demonstrate his "strength" to himself and to others, to endure more than his fellow patients, or for many other reasons. Usually, however, more relevant unconscious motives can be found underlying such superficial rationalizations. Another cause for a high resistance to the effect of the drug may be insufficient preparation, instruction, and reassurance of the subject, a lack of his full agreement and cooperation, or absence of basic trust in the therapeutic relationship. In this case, the LSD reaction sometimes does not take its full course until the motives of resistance are analyzed and understood. Occasional sudden sobering, which can occur at any period of the session and on any dosage level, can be understood as a sudden mobilization of defenses against the emergence of unpleasant traumatic material. Among psychiatric patients, severe obsessive-compulsive neurotics are particularly resistant to the effect of LSD. It has been a common observation in my research that such patients can resist dosages of more than 500 micrograms of LSD and show only slight signs of physical or psychological distress. In extreme cases, it can take several dozen high-dose LSD sessions before the psychological resistances of these individuals are reduced to the point that they start having episodes of regression to childhood and become aware of the unconscious material that has to be worked through. The excessive resistance of obsessive-compulsive patients can be illustrated by the following clinical example.
Erwin, a twenty-two-year-old student, was referred to the LSD treatment program after four years of unsuccessful therapy for a severe obsessive-compulsive neurosis. Over the years, he had developed a very complicated system of obsessive thoughts and became so preoccupied with it that it paralyzed all his other activities. He was compelled to imagine in his mind's eye a geometrical structure with two coordinate axes and locate within this system all the problems and duties he encountered in his everyday life. At times he spent many hours desperately trying to find the proper location for some aspect of his existence, but always without success. Before admission, he felt that the center of gravity of his imaginary coordinate system was shifting to the left; this upset him enormously and resulted in feelings of tension, apprehension, anxiety, insecurity, and depression. In addition, Erwin suffered from various psychosomatic symptoms and tended to interpret them in a hypochondriacal way. He was referred for psycholytic therapy after several hospitalizations and unsuccessful treatment with tranquilizers, antidepressants, and drug-free psychotherapy. Erwin manifested a rather spectacular resistance to the effect of LSD. After psychological preparation of two weeks' duration, he started having regular LSD sessions in weekly intervals. The initial dose of 100 micrograms was increased by fifty to one hundred micrograms every week, since he barely showed any response. Finally, he was given 1500 micrograms intramuscularly, with the hope that this would overcome his resistance. Between the second and third hour of the session, when the effect of [SD usually culminates, Erwin felt bored and a little hungry; according to his description as well as external manifestations, nothing unusual was happening. He seemed to be so well composed and in such full control that he was allowed to go with the therapist to a kitchenette on the ward, cut a piece of bread with a knife, open a can of liver paste, and have a snack. After he was finished, he wanted to go to the social room in the ward and play chess, because he felt he needed some distraction from the uneventful and monotonous therapeutic experiment.
It took thirty-eight high-dose sessions before Erwin's defense system was reduced to the point that he started regressing into childhood and reliving traumatic experiences.

It became obvious after this and similar observations that high psychological resistance to LSD cannot be broken merely by an increase in dosage and that it has to be gradually alleviated by a series of sessions. It seems that there exists a saturation point for LSD somewhere between 400 and 500 micrograms; if the subject does not respond adequately to this dosage, additional LSD will not change anything in the situation.
After demonstrating that LSD does not have any clear, invariant drug effects on the dosage level commonly used in experimental and clinical work with human subjects, we can ask what the effects of LSD actually are. According to my experience, they are rather unspecific and can be described only in very general terms. In a great majority of sessions, there is an over-all tendency toward perceptual changes in various sensory modalities. Consciousness is usually qualitatively altered and has a dreamlike quality. Emotional reactivity is almost always greatly enhanced, and affective factors play an important role as determinants of the LSD reaction. A rather striking aspect of the LSD effect is a marked intensification of all mental processes and neural processes in general; this involves phenomena of a different nature and origin. Pre-existing and recent psychogenic symptoms as well as those that the individual had suffered from in childhood or at some later period of his life can be exteriorized, amplified, and experienced in the LSD sessions. Traumatic or positive experiences from the past connected with a strong emotional charge are activated, brought forth from the unconscious, and relived in a complex way. Various dynamic matrices from different levels of the individual and collective unconscious can be brought to the surface and consciously experienced. Occasionally, phenomena of a neurological nature can be amplified and manifested in the sessions; frequently these are pains associated with arthritis, dislocation of vertebral disks, inflammatory processes, or postoperative and post-traumatic changes. Particularly common is reliving of sensations related to past injuries and operations; it is interesting from the theoretical point of view that LSD subjects seem to be able to relive even pains and other sensations related to past operations that were conducted under deep general anaesthesia. The propensity of LSD to amplify various neurological processes is so striking that it has been used with success by several Czech neurologists as a diagnostic tool for the exteriorization of latent paralyses and other subtle organic damage of the central nervous system. The negative aspect of this interesting property of LSD is the fact that it can activate seizures in patients suffering from manifest epilepsy or those who have a latent disposition to this disease.
By and large, I have not been able to discover during the analyses of my data any distinct pharmacological effects of LSD in humans that would be constant and invariant and could therefore be considered drug specific. At the present time, I consider LSD to be a powerful unspecific amplifier or catalyst of biochemical and physiological processes in the brain. It seems to create a situation of undifferentiated activation that facilitates the emergence of unconscious material from different levels of the personality. The richness as well as the unusual inter-and intraindividual variability of the LSD experience can thus be explained by the decisive participation of extrapharmacological factors, such as the personality of the subject and the structure of his unconscious, the personality of the therapist or sitter, and the set and the setting in all their complexity. The capacity of LSD and some other psychedelic drugs to exteriorize otherwise invisible phenomena and processes and make them the subject of scientific investigation gives these substances a unique potential as diagnostic instruments and as research tools for the exploration of the human mind. It does not seem inappropriate and exaggerated to compare their potential significance for psychiatry and psychology to that of the microscope for medicine or the telescope for astronomy.
In the following chapters, I have attempted to outline the cartography of the human unconscious as it has been manifested in LSD sessions of my patients and subjects. I have been quite encouraged by the fact that in various areas of human culture there are numerous indications that the maps of consciousness emerging from my LSD work are fully compatible and sometimes parallel with other existing systems. Examples of this can be found in C. G. Jung's analytical psychology, Roberto Assagioli's psychosynthesis, and Abraham Maslow's studies of peak experiences, as well as religious and mystical schools of various cultures and ages. Many of these frameworks are based not on the use of psychedelic drugs but on various powerful nondrug techniques of altering consciousness. This parallel between the LSD experiences and a variety of phenomena manifested without chemical facilitation provides additional supportive evidence for the unspe cific and catalyzing effect of LSD.
The description of the new model of the unconscious based on LSD research presents considerable difficulties. This model reflects a multidimensional and multilevel continuum of mutually overlapping and interacting phenomena. For didactic purposes, the object of discussion has to be dissected and its elements isolated from their broader contexts. Each attempt to communicate this model in a linear form necessarily results in a certain degree of oversimplification and artificiality. With full awareness of the disadvantages and limitations involved in such an undertaking, we can delineate for the purpose of our discussion the following four major levels, or types, of LSD experiences and the corresponding areas of the human unconscious: (1) abstract and aesthetic experiences, (2) psychodynamic experiences, (3) perinatal experiences, and (4) transpersonal experiences.


Jeg aner selvfølgelig ikke om ovenstående overhovedet kan relateres til dit trip eller ej, men det er pokkers interessant alligevel :p

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Tredjeøjeflod: Det kan godt være, det er det der sker. Men jeg synes bare det var ret underligt det skete, på det samme batch, og aldrig før eller siden. Men måske var jeg bare i et strange mode de dage. hehe. I øvrigt, synes jeg de trips jeg havde i min småalkoholiske periode var mere kropslige og tunge, end andre tider. Men netop ét batch var altid tungt, og altid med krampeagtige trækninger.

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