Citat:
From: Fat Freddie the Psychedelic Toad <ethnobotanical@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Mixing nootropics with psychedelics
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 07:02:18 +0100
Quicksilver wrote:
> I'm curious as to what peoples experiences are with mixing smart drugs
> with psychedelics and other drugs like LSD, shrooms, MDMA, or pot.
MAOI + tryptophan + L-methionine (+ B12 + B6 + folic acid) = DMT
See Alexander Shulgin's new book 'TIHKAL'. This is a must for anyone
interested in psychedelics, it is destined to become a classic. I will
quote directly (without permission, sorry) where it describes the
chemistry and effects of tryptamine:
page 283.
..... Almost forty years ago a researcher in the National institute
of Mental Health, in Maryland, discovered an enzyme in rabbit lung
that could transfer a methyl group to a tryptamine from the amino
acid donor, S-adenosyl-methione. With this system, sorotonin gave
N-methylsorotonin, N-methylsorotonin gave bufotenine, trptamine gave
N-methyltrptamine, and N-methyltrptamine gave DMT. What a fabulous
black box that would make. Get two enzyme preparations, one that can
methylate S-adenosyl-homocysteine to S-adenosyl-methionine and
another that can regenerate S-adenosyl-homocysteine by transferring
the methyl group to an available amine. Two catalysts in a chamber
heated to 37 C, with a spigot adding tryptamine at the top, and
another releasing DMT out the bottom. That's the science - I'll leave
the details to the engineers.
page 582.
(with 15 g, orally with 150 mg iproniazid) "this was a daily
treatment given to schizophrenic patients, tryptophan along with an
antidepressant which is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor. Most showed
marked changes such as an elevation in mood, an increased
involvement with other people in their ward, and an increased
extrovertism. A separate study of this composition with the addition
of the amino acid L_methionine produced in about half of these
patients a toxic or deliriod state."
...... Tryptophan, a natural and nutritionally essential amino-acid,
is a centrally active intoxicant and sleep provider in man. It is
converted metabolicaly to tryptamine, which is a little bit
psychedelic. When administered with methionine (another amino-acid
know to methylate things) it produces methylated tryptamines, the two
best studied being N-methyltryptamine (NMT) and N,N-dimethytryptamine
(DMT). The effects that result are hard to categorize, reflecting the
the diagnostic state of the patient. But something happens. In short,
tryptophan, alone or in combination with MAO inhibitors or methyl
donors, is a fabulous tool for exploring brain function...........
A quick Web search turned up some useful information relating to
methionine (again without permission):
The Cognitive Enhancement Research Institute
S-adenosylmethionine (SAM)
One of the essential metabolic functions of the body is active methyl
donation (cycle A). The active methylation donor is S-adenosyl-
methionine (SAM), which is produced from methionine by the addition
of ATP (adenosine triphosphate). After the methyl group has been
donated (reaction 3), homocysteine remains. Because homocysteine has
pro-oxidant properties (elevated levels are associated with cardio-
vascular disease), it must be detoxified. Two separate mechanisms
exist both of which are serine dependent. In the first (reaction 1),
homocysteine is re-methylated by methyltetrahydrofolate (Me-THF, or
"activated" folic acid) back to methionine, and the SAM cycle is
closed. Under most circumstances, this should be the dominant
pathway. In the second mechanism (reaction 2), homocysteine is
combined with serine to form cystathionine which is split back apart
(slightly differently) to yield cysteine and homoserine. This
reaction depends on the enzyme cystathionine beta-synthase which
opens up the SAM cycle and results in loss of methionine (and
accumulation of cysteine).
The restoration of the SAM cycle is not solely dependent on
increasing serine levels. The folate cycle (cycle B) is essential to
close the SAM cycle and keep methionine available for producing SAM.
The folate cycle not only requires folic acid, but also vitamins B6
and B12, and NADH (a vitamin B3-containing reducing agent). NADH is
now available as a dietary supplement in the US.
So it appears that to be safe methionine should be taken in combination
with vitamins B12, B6 and folic acid. Again on the down side I have read
that methionine has GI side effects such as nausea.
A safe MAOI could be Peganum harmala extract (harmine). With the
exception of tryptophan all the other ingredients are available from
health food stores.
Fat Freddie
Subject: Re: Mixing nootropics with psychedelics
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 07:02:18 +0100
Quicksilver wrote:
> I'm curious as to what peoples experiences are with mixing smart drugs
> with psychedelics and other drugs like LSD, shrooms, MDMA, or pot.
MAOI + tryptophan + L-methionine (+ B12 + B6 + folic acid) = DMT
See Alexander Shulgin's new book 'TIHKAL'. This is a must for anyone
interested in psychedelics, it is destined to become a classic. I will
quote directly (without permission, sorry) where it describes the
chemistry and effects of tryptamine:
page 283.
..... Almost forty years ago a researcher in the National institute
of Mental Health, in Maryland, discovered an enzyme in rabbit lung
that could transfer a methyl group to a tryptamine from the amino
acid donor, S-adenosyl-methione. With this system, sorotonin gave
N-methylsorotonin, N-methylsorotonin gave bufotenine, trptamine gave
N-methyltrptamine, and N-methyltrptamine gave DMT. What a fabulous
black box that would make. Get two enzyme preparations, one that can
methylate S-adenosyl-homocysteine to S-adenosyl-methionine and
another that can regenerate S-adenosyl-homocysteine by transferring
the methyl group to an available amine. Two catalysts in a chamber
heated to 37 C, with a spigot adding tryptamine at the top, and
another releasing DMT out the bottom. That's the science - I'll leave
the details to the engineers.
page 582.
(with 15 g, orally with 150 mg iproniazid) "this was a daily
treatment given to schizophrenic patients, tryptophan along with an
antidepressant which is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor. Most showed
marked changes such as an elevation in mood, an increased
involvement with other people in their ward, and an increased
extrovertism. A separate study of this composition with the addition
of the amino acid L_methionine produced in about half of these
patients a toxic or deliriod state."
...... Tryptophan, a natural and nutritionally essential amino-acid,
is a centrally active intoxicant and sleep provider in man. It is
converted metabolicaly to tryptamine, which is a little bit
psychedelic. When administered with methionine (another amino-acid
know to methylate things) it produces methylated tryptamines, the two
best studied being N-methyltryptamine (NMT) and N,N-dimethytryptamine
(DMT). The effects that result are hard to categorize, reflecting the
the diagnostic state of the patient. But something happens. In short,
tryptophan, alone or in combination with MAO inhibitors or methyl
donors, is a fabulous tool for exploring brain function...........
A quick Web search turned up some useful information relating to
methionine (again without permission):
The Cognitive Enhancement Research Institute
S-adenosylmethionine (SAM)
One of the essential metabolic functions of the body is active methyl
donation (cycle A). The active methylation donor is S-adenosyl-
methionine (SAM), which is produced from methionine by the addition
of ATP (adenosine triphosphate). After the methyl group has been
donated (reaction 3), homocysteine remains. Because homocysteine has
pro-oxidant properties (elevated levels are associated with cardio-
vascular disease), it must be detoxified. Two separate mechanisms
exist both of which are serine dependent. In the first (reaction 1),
homocysteine is re-methylated by methyltetrahydrofolate (Me-THF, or
"activated" folic acid) back to methionine, and the SAM cycle is
closed. Under most circumstances, this should be the dominant
pathway. In the second mechanism (reaction 2), homocysteine is
combined with serine to form cystathionine which is split back apart
(slightly differently) to yield cysteine and homoserine. This
reaction depends on the enzyme cystathionine beta-synthase which
opens up the SAM cycle and results in loss of methionine (and
accumulation of cysteine).
The restoration of the SAM cycle is not solely dependent on
increasing serine levels. The folate cycle (cycle B) is essential to
close the SAM cycle and keep methionine available for producing SAM.
The folate cycle not only requires folic acid, but also vitamins B6
and B12, and NADH (a vitamin B3-containing reducing agent). NADH is
now available as a dietary supplement in the US.
So it appears that to be safe methionine should be taken in combination
with vitamins B12, B6 and folic acid. Again on the down side I have read
that methionine has GI side effects such as nausea.
A safe MAOI could be Peganum harmala extract (harmine). With the
exception of tryptophan all the other ingredients are available from
health food stores.
Fat Freddie
MAOI + tryptophan + L-methionine = DMT
Jeg tror kun at der findes spekulation omkring det hele...
Men hvor fanden har du fået L-Methionin fra
Kombinationen kan muligvis være farlig, eftersom du ingen kontrol har over hvor meget DMT der vil blive produceret!
Et sikrere (og mere biokemisk interessant) bud, ville vel nok være at faste i et døgns tid, indtage kombinationen uden MAO-hæmmeren, for derefter at isolere DMT fra ens urin!
Jeg har læst at skizofrene personer producerer mere DMT, som kan afmåles i deres urin.
