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 Titel: Kanna - SSRI
Indlæg: 07 feb 2007 13:37 
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Hey. Jeg fik besøg af postmanden igår og han bragte mig 5 gram kanna pulver. Det skulle jo self prøves og virkede også lidt men ser frem til at blive tilvænnet så den rigtige virking kan komme frem.


Men mit spørgsmål går engelig på at Kanna er er/har en mild SSRI virking.
Er der noget jeg skal være opmærksom på her? Jeg ved jeg ikke skal indtage MAOI. Men hvilke ting er MAOI? Og hvor langtid efter sidste indtagelse af kanna skal man undgå MAOI?


Er der desuden andre ting man skal undgå at indtage sammen med Kanna? Har set et topic her på psychedelia hvor det frafrådes at bruge psychedelika sammen med SSRI (også Kanna blev nævnt).


Håber på at få noget brugbart input :). Vil jo nødig komme galt afsted....


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Indlæg: 08 feb 2007 14:11 
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Kom nu frem fra jeres gemmested 27 visninger og 0 svar er ikke optimalt 8) :wink:


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Indlæg: 08 feb 2007 15:47 
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Det er korrekt at en kombination af SSRI og MAOI er en dårlig ide, da det kan lede til serotoninsyndrom. Præcis hvor alvorligt det kan blive kommer an på hvor stærke de enkelte stoffer er. Jeg er ikke bekendt med kannas styrke som SSRI.
Primært er det nok en god ide at holde sig væk fra de stærke MAOInhibitorer, som f.eks. Peganum Harmala, Ayahuasca og de farmaceutiske MAOI. Andre ting indeholder MAOI, f.eks. cigaretter, men styrken af disse er så svage at de sandsynligvis ikke vil give problemer.


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Indlæg: 08 feb 2007 16:20 
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Andre ting indeholder MAOI, f.eks. cigaretter, men styrken af disse er så svage at de sandsynligvis ikke vil give problemer.



Det håber jeg så sandelig ikke for det er ristet tobak jeg blander mit kanna med....


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Indlæg: 08 feb 2007 19:34 
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hej farmand. dig som havde købt det sjove pulver.(eller hvad det nu er)

kan du forklare mig på en meget "skære ud i pap måde" hvad kanna er?
har læst mig til at det muligvis skulle være et godt alternativ for hash. :)


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Indlæg: 08 feb 2007 19:53 
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kan du forklare mig på en meget "skære ud i pap måde" hvad kanna er?



Ja sikkert men det kan google også :wink:

Prøv at søge på:

Kanna Sceletium tortuosum


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Indlæg: 08 feb 2007 19:54 
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kewle skrev:
hej farmand. dig som havde købt det sjove pulver.(eller hvad det nu er)

kan du forklare mig på en meget "skære ud i pap måde" hvad kanna er?
har læst mig til at det muligvis skulle være et godt alternativ for hash. :)


:utfse:

5 g.......? Lyder som en pænt træls mængde at insufflere :shock:


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Indlæg: 08 feb 2007 19:56 
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5 g.......? Lyder som en pænt træls mængde at insufflere





Man skal jo hellere ikke insufflere 5 gram på en gang :shock:


Dosen er 50-200 mg pr dose. Desuden kan man også sagtens ryge eller tygge det med tyggummi


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Indlæg: 08 feb 2007 21:46 
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Nej 5 g. er vel også fysisk umuligt. Om ikke pga. omfanget, så pga. følelsen.

Tænker mere på, at jeg har sniffet Kanna et par gange, og gør det ALDRIG mere. Metoden med at bruge f.eks. tyggegummi kendte jeg dog ikke....


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Indlæg: 08 feb 2007 21:56 
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Nej Kanna er IMO ret ubehageligt at snuse. Derfor benytter jeg kun rygning. Men skal også snart ha prøvet med tyggegummi


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Indlæg: 08 feb 2007 22:01 
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Farmand8900 skrev:
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Andre ting indeholder MAOI, f.eks. cigaretter, men styrken af disse er så svage at de sandsynligvis ikke vil give problemer.



Det håber jeg så sandelig ikke for det er ristet tobak jeg blander mit kanna med....


http://www.biopsychiatry.com/maoi-smoke.htm

Ingen vej uden om. Jeg er stadig selv ved at sætte mig ind i det, men som jeg forstår det er virkningen relativt begrænset, pga. den lille mængde tobak man ryger.


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Indlæg: 08 feb 2007 22:04 
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Har alligevel for nogle timer siden bestilt mig 5 gram kanna extract powder mere + en pakke (50g) smoking blend (100% tobak og nikotin fri) som jeg har fået anbefalet på et andet board til at mixe med kanna og cannabis.


Ser frem til at modtage skidtet :D


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Indlæg: 24 feb 2007 21:31 
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Igår tyggede og spiste jeg 40g frisk kanna plante(blade og stængel)...
Opnåede en let opløftende og berusende effekt, ikke noget vildt men tydelig nok...skal nok passe det blander godt med cannabis.

Det tyder på at en fermentering af plantematerialet kan gøre det stærkere:
Citat:
5. Field studies and pharmacological investigations

In view of the somewhat contradictory information about Sceletium and 'kougoed', one of the authors undertook a field trip to Namaqualand where plants are collected and prepared using traditional methods, for commercial resale. In keeping with literature observations, the plant material is crushed between stones following harvest and allowed to remain in closed containers for several days to 'ferment'. An informant reported that historically, a skin or canvas bag was used as a fermentation vessel, but that these have been replaced by plastic bags. The informant detailed his technique:

'Leave the bag of crushed 'kougoed' in the sun to get warm; its not necessary to put it (the bag) in the shade, it gets shade at night, and the sun doesn't harm it. The plant is left to sweat. After 2-3 days the bag is opened, the 'kougoed' is mixed around, and then the bag is tightly closed again. On the 8th day after the crushing, the bag is opened and the 'kougoed' is spread out to dry in the sun, as when you dry raisins. You leave it out until it is dry. If you don't do the whole thing, the plant won't have power. If you eat the fresh plant nothing will happen - it doesn't have power. I learned to prepare it from my father'.

The finished product is stringy, light brown and unattractive in appearance. The informant noted that the season of collection of plants was important; plants collected too early would posses less psychoactivity.

A second informant described an alternative preparation technique, employed when the user seeks to rapidly prepare 'kougoed'. A small fire is made over sand, and when it dies down, the ashes are scraped aside, and a hollow made in the sand. A freshly picked, whole Sceletium plant is placed in this excavation, and covered with hot sand. An hour later the baked plant product is recovered, reputedly with acquired properties similar to the conventionally prepared material. Lewis-Williams (1981) describes a similar method for preparing eland fat among the San, the only difference being that it was left to cook overnight. In the Coloured community, to this day, 'ou vet' (old fat) is a colloquial expression for dagga (Cannabis sativa).

On one occasion two of the authors took 2g of conventionally-prepared 'kougoed' by mouth with a small quantity of alcohol, and held the material in the mouth for 10 min. Some of the product was swallowed with saliva during this period. No major discomfort was encountered and after about 30 min both subjects felt a 'tranquil mellowness'. There was no impairment of motor function, and no visual hallucinations were experienced. On a separate occasion, 2 weeks later, the subjects took 1g of material prepared by another of the coauthors. This material induced the same effects as previously, but appeared to be slightly stronger. This second sample, however, differed from the first in several respects: the preparation included the root, and was prepared in a different season from plants of different origin. When the subjects further attempted to ingest unfermented plant material which had been freeze-dried, by mouth, the acidity was most objectionable and the exercise was discontinued. The discomfort was not unlike that of placing a crystal of oxalic acid under tile tongue; the pH of aqueous extracts of freeze-dried material was later determined to be between 5 and 5.5.

An analysis of this material using the technique of Sutikno et al. (1987) indicated levels of 3.6-5.1% oxalate. This is higher than the levels of 1.9% reported for elephant grass by those authors, but falls within the median range for oxalates in crop plants reported by Libert and Franceschi (1987). Our observation, and reports by others of oxalates in Sceletium (Watt and Breyer-Brandwijk, 1962; Kellermah et al., 1988) have led us to the view that perhaps the physical crushing of the plant and the fermentation process may, in some way, ameliorate the potentially harmful effects of oxalic acid. Free oxalic acid is likely to complex with cell wall-associated calcium salts and precipitate as calcium oxalate when plant material is crushed.

Hanson et al. (1989) have suggested that a low bioavailability of oxalates in plant tissues may be a function of high ratios of minerals such as calcium. and magnesium to oxalate.

Oxalates are degraded by microbial populations in the gastrointestinal tract of humans, ruminants and non-ruminant herbivores (Daniel et al., 1987). There is evidence that adaptive changes in microbial microflora may reduce oxalate absorbtion and toxicity (Argenzio et al., 1988). Allison et al. (1985) have proposed that these anaerobes be named Oxalobacter formigenes and it has been suggested that soils and lake sediments may serve as an inoculum. for oxalate degrading organisms in the digestive tract of animals (Smith et al., 1985). We would like to suggest that the crushing process, prior to anaerobic fermentation would introduce oxalate-degrading microbes into the skin or plastic bag and so ameliorate the potential toxic effects of oxalic acid. The use of Mesembryanthemaceae to initiate fermentation for alcohol or breadmaking is well documented (Juritz, 1906; Watt and Breyer-Brandwift, 1962), so that the microbiology of 'fermentation' in 'kougoed' is likely to be quite complex.

The second preparatory method involving burying plant material in hot sand may also have a scientific basis. Oxalic acid is a simple dicarboxylic acid, and considerable sublimation is likely to occur at temperatures above its melting point of 101-102'C; on the other hand, mesembrine only boils between 186-190'C (Merck Index).

Hence the use of this simple physical technique may achieve the same result as the more traditional 'fermentation' process by removing oxalates, and drying the material while retaining alkaloids.

Additional information on the effect of 'kougoed' has been documented from a dozen individuals who self-experimented with the traditionally prepared material, and provided oral anecdotes of these experiences. Most users found that the 'kougoed' induced a marked anxiolytic effect. One informant used approximately 5 ml of powdered 'kougoed' orally before giving a lecture that he was anxious about. He reported feeling relaxed throughout the lecture, with no cognitive impairment. Many users felt that 'kougoed', in addition to alcohol or on its own, enhanced social intercourse at parties and functions. Users felt considerably less inhibited and self-conscious, and more open than usual in conversation with strangers. One user claimed that she felt that 'kougoed' was a 'truth drug'.

Of 'kougoed', some felt that there was a synergistic effect with alcohol, and with smoked 'dagga' (Cannabis sativa). One experimenter, a poly-substance abuser, used 'kougoed' in addition to alcohol (whisky) and smoked 'dagga'. He experienced a traumatic flashback to a violent event he had participated in during a regional armed conflict. Another experimenter, who on two separate occasions smoked 'dagga' after chewing 'kougoed', reported seeing distinct visions of the Sceletium flower and was able to accurately describe its form and colour, without ever having seen a specimen of it. The chewing of 'kougoed' was reported to greatly enhance the psychoactivity of an inferior grade of Cannabis smoked shortly thereafter (see also 4, above, Paterson's commentary on synergism).

A poly-substance abuser addicted to nicotine and a frequent abuser of alcohol and 'dagga', reported that after using a single dose of 'kougoed', he had felt no craving for alcohol, tobacco or 'dagga' for 4 days.

Some reported euphoria as well as a feeling of meditative tranquillity. Several users felt that the relaxation induced by 'kougoed' enabled one to focus on inner thoughts and feelings, if one wished, or to co ncentrate on the beauty of nature.

Some informants reported heightened sensation of skin to fine touch, as well as sexual arousal. A senior traditional African healer, not previously exposed to 'kougoed', tried it and announced that it 'relaxes the mind' and one's body feels 'light' the following day.

A white Namaqualand farmer, who has observed his shepherds and labourers using 'kougoed', points out that it is not possible to discern that they are intoxicated with it: they walk normally and work as usual. The only sign that they have been using 'kougoed', he says, is 'a sort of faraway look in their eyes'. Three first-time users reported experiencing clouding of consciousness with doses that caused intoxication. A horticulturist reported that he was once stung by a bee while on a fieldtrip. He chewed on some 'kougoed' (for the first time) in the hope that it would alleviate the pain. The pain subsided rapidly but no intoxication was experienced.

Rood (1994) includes a number of anecdotes on Sceletium anatomicum. A Mr. P. van Breda of Worcester reported that if enough is eaten, it anaesthetizes the lower jaw sufficiently to enable a tooth to be extracted painlessly. Mrs. Helena Marincowitz of Prins Albert reported that San mothers used to simply chew the root and spit the juice into the mouth of an infant, who would then sleep soundly for a few hours. Mrs. Lettie van Niekerk of Karnieskroon reported that it is an excellent carminative for stomach ailments and winds. Mr. J.H. Cornelissen stated that Blacks from Queenstown and Khoisan from Namaqualand use an infusion of the leaves of Sceletium tortuosum to relieve pain and alleviate hunger.


fra http://www.iamshaman.com/kanna/psychocative.htm

Om du med kanna kan lave en kontra på serotoninsystemet ved indtagelse af mdma ved jeg ikke...


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Indlæg: 14 mar 2008 17:11 
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Hej, jeg har også gjort en del i Kanna Sceletium Tortuosum.
I går røg jeg en joint kun med Kanna blade og rod som jeg havde grindet rigtig meget så der ikke kunne gå hold på jointen. :)
Jeg fik et ordenligt smil på, det spændte i mine kinder!
Jeg har tit røget det sammen med Cannabis, og der har jeg ofte fået panorama syn på! :D
En rigtig god antidepressiv plante :!:

Jeg er lige nu ved at skrive alt om denne vidunderlige plante.
Men hvad er SSRI egentlig?
Jeg troede kun at den indeholdte MAOI.. :roll:


Og forresten, er MAOI ikke noget der gør at hvis man spiser fx. et stykke brød, så kan maven ikke nedbryde det??


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Indlæg: 15 mar 2008 12:40 
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:google:

http://www.google.dk/search?&q=ssri
http://www.google.dk/search?q=maoi


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