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Indlæg: 21 feb 2012 12:42 
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Hej psy,

Er der en større risiko ved at indtage RC´s end andet , amf, cola, MDMA, etc.

Tit når talen falder på RC så udløser det en automat reaktion; at det er farligt, at man ikke ved hvad man intager osv. HR og almindelig sund fornuft kan da reducere farerne betragteligt. fx ved at starte med 1 mg og arbejde sig op osv.
Man aner da absolut heller ikke hvad ens amf er cuttet med, eller hvor meget kviksølv ens MDMA har til overs fra produktionen.

Alle her, tager vel en risiko hver gang de fylder kroppen med narko, eller hvordan?
nogen tanker?

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Indlæg: 21 feb 2012 13:03 
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Spændende tråd synes jeg..

Du har helt ret mht. urenheder og cutmidler i gadenarko som f.eks amfetamin og kokain. MDMA, selvom det er i krystaller, kan så vidt jeg husker være på helt ned til 40% renhed. Måske endda lavere.. Ingen af stofferne bliver garanteret fremstillet i et laboratorie, bliver ikke ordentligt oprenset(hvis overhovedet) og så videre..

Det farlige ved RC's er jo at der ingen undersøgelser er lavet om de respektive stoffers risici; bivirkninger både på kort og lang sigt.

Generelt tror jeg at RC's er af langt højere renhed end gadenarko, men det er jo ingen garanti for at det hverken er rent eller ikke indeholder giftstoffer/syntese rester - Ydermere har vi jo desværre set eksempler på forveksling af 2 vidt forskellige kemikaler fra laboratoriets/vendors side.

Personligt gør jeg mig en del i især psykedeliske RC's, i perioder i hvert fald. Jeg vælger at løbe risikoen, men tager mig selvfølgelig forholdsregler.


//blazR

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Indlæg: 21 feb 2012 14:08 
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Det er derfor jeg er så princip fast omkring hvad jeg indtager: KUN Statsnarko/Lægemidler. Måske lige bortset fra ganja, men vil heller ikke kalde det for "gade" narko.


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Indlæg: 21 feb 2012 16:02 
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@blazR

Imod:

-Forveksling/fejlpakning...
-Ingen undersøgelser om ricici og bivirkninger

Et RC har jo ikke engang nået de prækliniske studier, i en klinisk udvikling af et lægemiddelstof, puha! hvem sagde labrats :-)

For:

-højere renhed

grundet færre mellemled?



@thegame
Jeg ville ønske at jeg også kunne vælge mit eget statsnarko ;-) , og snaden bliver sjældnere taget ned fra hylden.
Og ja dyrk din egen narko!

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Indlæg: 21 feb 2012 17:33 
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så engang en dokumentar, hvor en engelsk læge faktisk rådede de unge til at tage de "rigtige" stoffer istedet for at tage de der "legal high's" man kan køber derovre. grunden til dette var ifølge ham fordi, at hvis man OD'er på de "rigtige" stoffer vidste lægerne, hvordan de skulle behandle patienten, hvilket de ikke gjorde hvis man kom ind med en OD af de "Legal high's", da de ikke ved hvilke stoffer de har og gøre med.
ud fra det ville jeg nok holde mig til Gadeknark, selvom man ikke altid ved hvad det er cuttet med. men da de fleste dealers are getting high on own their supply, tror jeg ikke man være bange for, hvad de er cutter med + at de vil vel også gerne beholde deres kunder ;-)


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Indlæg: 21 feb 2012 18:45 
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Bobble Welly skrev:
men da de fleste dealers are getting high on own their supply, tror jeg ikke man være bange for, hvad de er cutter med + at de vil vel også gerne beholde deres kunder ;-)

Dem der cutter det tager formodentligt slet ikke stoffet selv, eller tager noget til dem selv inden de cutter det. Tænk i øvrigt på uddannelses niveauet for de fleste dealere, de tænker ikke længere end: "dyrt hvidt pulver + billige hvidt pulver = mere dyrt pulver". Enten aner de ikke hvad de stopper i deres hovede eller også er de ligeglade.
^Selvom der selvfølgelig findes undtagelser, er det min generelle opfattelse af det sidste led i salgskæden.

Jeg tror det mindst skadelige er at skaffe sig ordnede forhold til at oprense sit 'gadeknark', og derved eliminere cutmidler og (måske) andre kemikalie rester, biprodukter osv. i processen

Udover det er jeg ganske enig i BlazeR's indlæg, jeg kunne dog ikke personligt tænke mig at tage RC's - der er lidt for meget tombola over det til min smag.


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Indlæg: 21 feb 2012 18:59 
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Jeg tror ikke, man skal frygte "cutmidler" så meget. Det er ofte noget inert som forskellige sukkerstoffer eller kreatin (det dummeste at cutte med ever). Undtagelsen er selvf noget som Levamisol og underlige medikamenter fundet i kokain. Men i fuldstændigt syntetiske stoffer er urenheder fra syntesen nok et mere alvorligt problem.

Jeg tror ikke, man kan sige generelt hvad der er værst af "gammeldags" narko eller RCs. Der kan være en himmel til forskel mellem forskellige batches.

Det kan dog i visse tilfælde være en god ting, hvis man bruger potent stof, så man ikke indtager en stor mængde af stoffet ad gangen. På den måde er man statistisk set mindre eksponeret for urenheder. Men igen kommer det an på, hvad urenhederne er og i hvor stor mængde, de findes. Dertil kommer der en større risiko for over/fejldosering ved meget potente stoffer. Og da stofferne måske er giftige i sig selv, er der pludselig mange variabler at tage højde for.

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Indlæg: 21 feb 2012 20:00 
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Renheden på RC's er langt højere og det er vel det gode ved RC's, problemet er de ikke er undersøgt og man ikke ved noget om langtidsbivirkningerne og på nogle kender man heller ikke noget til korttidsbivirkningerne.

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Indlæg: 22 feb 2012 00:09 
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I am reporting this experience because of train-wreck disaster occurred. This is a report of an hospitalization following a 25I-NBOMe ingestion.

My previous experiences with hallucinogens are various; 2C-C, 2C-D, 2C-E, DOI, DOC, Methoxetamine, BromoDragonFLY, LSD, Mushrooms, DXM, Methylone, 5-meO-MIPT, 4-HO-MIPT, 4-HO-MET, ect…

However, this report consists of a friend’s first time trip. My friend is a 18 healthy individuals with no experiences at all with tripping. He only has a drink sometimes and he only smoke marijuana two times.

My friend was interested in tripping but unfortunately, I cannot have my hands on something relatively “safe” such as LSD, Mushrooms or DMT. I warn him that I only have research chemicals at my disposal. Due to the large numbers of experiments of 25I-NBOMe that proliferate on the Internet and the “safe” feeling profile that outcome, I thought it was the perfect choice for a first timer. How wrong I was!!

He agrees that he will try this substance. We called him “G”. For the experience, we planned to invite some friends and especially a sober one. I called a trusted friend to come at my house for tomorrow.

The day before the trip I proceed to dilute the 25i-NBOMe with an alcohol solution of 500µg (micrograms) / ml. Therefore, each ml will provide a 500µg trip. I already have many experiences with 25i-NBOMe at 250µg (A bit on the low side), 500µg and 1 mg! It feels always safe! The substance has no body-load or worrisome effects on the body except sometimes a “speedy” rush feeling. I attributed that being a 2C-I / DOI derivatives.

The day of the trip, my friend “G” come at 11:00 AM along with “J” which was the sober guardian.

“G” was a bit anxious and excited for his trip; he never felt any change in consciousness expect an alcohol-buzz and marijuana (Which is smoke only 2 times).

I told him the effects and he read a bit on Erowid. I was preparing the food for the dinner (12:00AM). He confirmed that he was ready!

We proceed to eat the dinner, which were some potatoes, sausages and tomatoes. At 2:00 PM I told him how to take the substance, I told him that he need to hold the ml drop in his mouth until the effects kicks.

Being cautious, I shake the vial one more time to be sure that the chemical is evenly diluted in the vial. I carefully take out 1 ml with my seringue that contains 500µg. I gave the syringe to him and he drops the ml in his mouth.

I did the same. We were sitting on the sofa, watching TV with “J” (the sober guardian). “J” was drinking a beer so he was still able to keep an eye on us.

We were looking at each other with a kind of smile, waiting for the effects.

45 minutes later the effects start to kick, “G” spit out his saliva in the trash bin, and I did the same. The trip is kicking!

“G” was telling that my living room seems weird and he was sure it was not the same living room as before. I told him that it was normal; it was due to the drugs and he just need to watch and enjoy!

As my side, my mouth was somewhat numb and the walls of my living room started to “breathes” (you know the common effects of psychedelics btw).

“G” kept repeating how weird the living room was, and how weird he feels. He was giggling, but I remarked that it was a nervous giggling. The word “weird” was his only word from now.

He was staring at the walls and he seems to be confused, he look at his feet and he said something like: “Are we walking on water here?”

I told him that he has nothing to worry about and he just need to stay calm and everything will be fine. “J” was speaking to him, trying to get his attention.

I was somewhat surprised that “G” felt like this, because I thought the 25i-NBOMe was not that strong. 500µg seems fine, not too light, and not too strong. It’s like a “psychedelic mash-up” with the common trippy effects that LSD have (Maybe a bit speedier).

I was used to the 25I-NBOMe effects and they were very easy to handle, the mind stay very clear the whole time.

“G” anyway feels not right and he rushed to the toilet, he vomited! He returns on the living room and he sat on the sofa. I told him to close his eyes and relax, he will feel better.

I was enjoying the experience so far, but I was concerned about “G” that was not right! “J” was looking at me somewhat disturbed.

I was enjoying the visuals for a while, just watching everywhere. Everything was moving, swirling and melting in a very cool manner!

I asked at “G” if he was ok, but he was not replying at all !

I told :

“G” ?? Hey buddy ! Wake up, what’s wrong ?

“J” said he was not moving at all. Now something was not right with “G”. He was sit on the sofa, unable to reply, his eyes closed and his face was bright red!! I “slap” him gently on the face to wake him up ! “G” was unresponsive to external stimulus.

“J” ask to call medical attention. I said no and we should wait. I tried to talk to “G” but he was looking not well at all, his face was very bright red, almost blue – purple!! His breathing was faint, and his heart seems to sky rocketed.

I went to the kitchen, take a glass of water and try to make him drink the water. “J” cry at me: “CALL THE AMBULANCE HIS LIPS TURNED BLUES!!”

I begin to panic myself, I just say “NO” I don’t want to call hospital, I prefer to go there! With the help of “J” We picked up “G”. Oh gosh he can’t stand on his legs.

We caught him by the shoulders and we dropped him in the back seat of the car. “J” was driving us to the hospital.

I really can’t believe what was happening! During the drive, “G” was kind of waking up and he was still saying how weird the things are. I tried to calm him down; telling him it will be ok.

We arrived at the hospital in the emergency parking. We were having problems carrying “G” so “J” rushed to the ER and ask for help.

Some guys of the EMT runs to the car and then we were bombarded of questions: “What’s wrong ?” I told the person that we took 25I-NBOMe, that it was a hallucinogen drugs somewhat similar of 2C-I but he never heard of it!

The EMT staff carried him on a stretcher, put him an oxygen mask and rushed him to the emergency room. One of the guy ask if he was the only one to be on drugs. Since I was in fear I replied that I also took the drugs but I felt fine. He said I need to sit in the waiting room and if everything is going wrong, I can told them. “J” was waiting with me.

I feel very anxious all the way but I can still stay coherent and manage my fear since I do not find the trip to be rude.

Then a guy from the emergency room come and asked us some questions: “What kind of drugs did he took?” I told him it was a derivative of 2C-I that is a hallucinogen drugs. He said he only know 2C-B but not 2C-I. He also sent someone to check my vitals.

A woman came and proceeded to take my blood pressure and analyzing my heartbeat. I was bit panicking and I told her if everything is ok ? She told that my BP was OK but my heartbeat is beating somewhat fast but that is not dangerous. I asked her if I can have some Valium or Xanax but she does not agree.

I asked if my friend will be ok but they do not know. Someone told us that his Magnesium / Potassium level have drop down dangerously and that he could die at any moment during our trip!

They released me and my friend “J”.

As I wrote this trip report, my friend is still in the hospital… 5 days later!

I don’t know what happened, my friend don’t seem to have any circulatory, heart-disease! He is athletics and he is vegetarians! He was always fine before and rarely being ill.

I’m kind of shaky because I never have such a reaction to 25i-NBOMe before, and my trip felt fine and clean all the time.

So if you wanna digging into the Research Chemicals realm, please start very low and expect to everything coming! I’m 100 % it will be better if we took Mushrooms or LSD, because they are more researched and they are very safe at least.

Due to the unknown safety-profile of the 25X-NBOMe compounds being new on the market, I suggest strongly to consider taking them.

I will let you know updated of the situation if I can have news of my friend ! I’m very worried for him.

Please Be safe.


Hvor forsigtig man skal være, har selvfølgelig også noget at gøre med hvor nyt et RC man har med at gøre. Hele Nbome-serien er meget ny, så her er det altid en go idé at starte lavt ud. 2c-x er en anden sag. Pointen er at de alle er forskellige

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Indlæg: 22 feb 2012 09:10 
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@Luftkaptajnen...

Puha, det var en trist historie. Hvor har du fundet den henne? Bluelight? Bare så man lige kan følge med i udviklingen.


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Indlæg: 22 feb 2012 09:51 
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^ Jeg har i hvert fald læst den skrækkelige historie på Bluelight..



//blazR

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Indlæg: 22 feb 2012 11:16 
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ja føj! det skidt især da 25i-NBOMe måles i mikrogram. så bliver det godt nok svært at starte lavt ud, for ikke at sige umuligt.
Men han må jo også havde været allergisk på en eller anden måde. Men det kan man jo aldrig vide såeh...

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Indlæg: 22 feb 2012 11:26 
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ja føj! det skidt især da 25i-NBOMe måles i mikrogram. så bliver det godt nok svært at starte lavt ud, for ikke at sige umuligt.
.


Har du nogensinde hørt om digitalvægte?

Jeg tænker lidt om ham dudens reaktion kan have noget at gøre med hans vegetarisme. Måske han var dårlig til at sammensætte sin kost og i forvejen havde for lidt magnesium i kroppen, og så at 25i-NBOMe skubbede lidt? Well det er bare spekulationer.


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Indlæg: 22 feb 2012 11:35 
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^^ ja det har jeg. Min 0.001g vægt er jeg mægtigt glad for, men aldrig om jeg ville veje noget sikkert på den i 0.0001g området.

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Indlæg: 22 feb 2012 14:29 
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Ja, det var fra den her tråd http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/6111 ... I-NBOMe%29

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Indlæg: 22 feb 2012 15:44 
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Ang. at veje 25X-NBOMe kemikalier ud så er det eneste forsvarlige at bruge væskeopløsning. Fx 20 mg materiale (hvilket en god 1500-2000 kr vægt burde kunne klare med >95% præcision) i en kendt mængde væske, fx 1 liter. Derefter burde det være muligt at udmåle præcise doser hvis man har noget at udmåle væsken præcist med.


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Indlæg: 23 feb 2012 19:55 
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Det ser ud til at der måske er lidt for mange ulemper/ukendte variabler ved RC's.
Desuden lukker slikbutikken jo alligevel snart. :(

Ironien er jo; det usikre narko er lovligt, mens det "sikre" er ulovligt! :hm:

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Indlæg: 23 feb 2012 20:57 
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Vi ved jo ikke om det er sikkert, nogle RC's føles meget sikre. - selvom det ikke er en godkendt argument.

Har også svært ved at forestille mig der skulle blive opfundet et nyt dræber narko, når der endnu ikke findes dræber substanser af de ulovlige.

Det eneste som virkelig kan bekymre mig ved RC's er de forskellige isomerer - en forkert isomer kan have fatale konsekvenser, se f.eks på krisen med Thalidomid i 1960'erne. Dem som brugte den forkerte isomer's børn blev født uden lemmer.

Imens den rigtige isomer var uskadelig, havde den forkerte isomer vanvittige bivirkninger.

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Indlæg: 23 feb 2012 21:21 
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Har også svært ved at forestille mig der skulle blive opfundet et nyt dræber narko, når der endnu ikke findes dræber substanser af de ulovlige.


Jeg forstår slet ikke denne sætning, kan du ikke forklare?


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Indlæg: 23 feb 2012 21:28 
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For at give et eksempel: Svampe eller stoffet psilocybin (4-HO-DMT) er et temmelig uskadeligt stof hvis det bruges korrekt, kigger på vi analogen methylcybin (4-HO-MET) har jeg svært ved at se hvordan dette skulle være meget mere skadeligt end 4-HO-DMT.

Det er måske stadig lidt forkringlet forklaret.

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